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Christopher S. Penn's Awaken Your Superhero
Christopher S. Penn's Awaken Your Superhero
Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)
Started by Christopher S. Penn · 3 months ago
Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)
I’ve been collecting Twitters from folks about Podshow’s campaign:
Mike Yusi: Is anyone else on Podshow getting emails complaining about the new openings?
P. W. Fenton: Better question: Is anyone ... Continue reading »
I’ve been collecting Twitters from folks about Podshow’s campaign:
Mike Yusi: Is anyone else on Podshow getting emails complaining about the new openings?
P. W. Fenton: Better question: Is anyone ... Continue reading »
1 year ago
Then, once you're only representing a select few QUALITY podcasts, you actually promote the SHOWS, not the network. Spend the VC dollars on advertising for the shows, then those new listeners will generate ad revenue for your clients.
It's not a short-term profitable business model, not remotely. But it's the only way to make your brand MEAN a damn thing.
Pax,
Matthew
1 year ago
1 year ago
Well thought out and well said.
You should submit this to their "contest".
:)
Andy Bilodeau
http://andycast.net
1 year ago
I am not nor have I ever been looking for a podcasting sugar daddy to come and take me away from all of this....I expect that I have my own creative control and therefore, I am also solely responsible for my success or failure, and this covers web design, promotion, scheduling interviews- you name it.
However, even on a shoestring, I live by this motto- If you say you are going to do something- do it. No empty promises.
The problem with podshow is one of credibility. That's really hard to fix, but even the small things, like returning emails and phone calls, would go a long way to making people feel like Podshow cares- besides- it's just common courtesy.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Fantastic post!
We can only hope that the powers that be at Podshow sit up and take notice at the backlash the Suck Less campaign has generated and act fast. Even one show losing one listener over it is one too many.
Time for a major re-think I believe.
- Neil.
1 year ago
When you have both hands on the wheel, reaching over to spin the click wheel isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. And when you are your sixth short show of a journey, you can only take so much of a catchy jingle and Cali Lewis reading a script.
- Neil.
1 year ago
Podshow does need to change, I don't mind the post-roll or even a couple second pre-roll (listen to my show for a good example (http://mikeshotdish.com). But when I know I have to skip 15 - 60 seconds that gets really ridiculous.
1 year ago
I hope that podcasting in general succeeds as an industry. But I don't really feel it so much for Podshow.
1 year ago
Thus, my identity is locked out, and I don't care enough to fix it. I hear I'm not alone on this either. I shouldn't have to work THAT HARD to join a website -- though that does encapsulate what PodShow must think of its worth...
1 year ago
In many ways, Podshow has made itself into a touchstone by being the first and the biggest to do many of the things they're doing. That by it's nature will draw alot of ire and criticism. And, like any other large ship, it's a lot harder to turn around than a little dingy. We all liked the maneuverability of the dingy, but we also like the amenities of the yacht.
As annoying as the preroll ads are (and I think it's ESSENTIAL that they listen to audience members complaints about these), the very fact that they created a campaign around making improvements, and are having fun with it is laudable. You make an excellent point that this tactic may not work with all the content, and there should be 3 or 4 scenarios, and different targeting campaigns for the same final goal. Business or religious podcasts will be better served with a different approach.
And Les Zaldor, we should all have such a problem...
1 year ago
That's obviously true here. If Podshow was thinking about the customer, they'd probably rethink their pre-roll strategy entirely; at the very least, they'd realize that putting the same 60-second ad in front of all the shows on their network (including the ones who are just hosting on the PDN but haven't signed a contract) would make a lot of listeners angry. A main reason a lot of podcast listeners don't listen to the radio any more is because they're tired of being assaulted by commercials and of hearing the same thing over and over again. It amazes me that they thought it was going to be received well. Hopefully they'll take some lessons from this and come up with a better way to announce their future campaigns.
1 year ago
And when are they every going to update the PMN? If it wasn't for the new music being added to it, I might think the site was abandoned. There are so many missed opportunities for them and for us (the artists)...
1 year ago
First let me say that, several of my "Do Not Miss" shows are on the Podshow Network. Mostly, anything CC Chapman puts out. And the people that I've met that work at Podshow have all been really great people who are very excited about what they're doing there.
We had some meetings with Podshow very early on. Went to their offices, had the tour, was given the pitch about how they were changing media and that if we became part of the network we could quit our day jobs. This was by invitation, back before they opened it to everyone. 15 months later and nothing has really changed except that their site has become more unusable and confusing and it's become really clear that the management actually doesn't walk-the-talk of changing media. They talk about it. But they don't actually get it.
It's really an issue of old world style management practices. It appears they think what worked before in their previous companies will work again. That just doesn't seem to be the case this time around.
They certainly could learn some lessons by watching what Todd Cochran is doing with his networks. Side note: I'm not a member of any of his networks but I know him personally and with Todd, what you see is what you get and he's as open as anything I've seen in the New Media Networks space.
The question I would love to ask those podcasters that joined the network very early on is, "Knowing what you know now, if you could do it all over again, would you still have signed up with Podshow?" Then a follow up question, "Have you thought about leaving Podshow, and if so, why haven't you left yet?"
1 year ago
1 year ago
The reality is that audio podcasting probably will never have as large an audience as video, just as radio doesn't have as large an audience as television. That said, there are still 100 million iPods out there, still 35 million Americans alone with broadband, that we can connect to the music we love and support. I would love to see a podcasting network or a new media company throw an enterprise-grade effort behind independent music the way it initially looked like the PMN was going to go, back when C.C. Chapman got it started two years ago.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
I think the problem is that they are thinking about their customers ... too much. It's just that the customer isn't who you think it is. As a podcaster and listener you aren't the customer, you are the product.
1 year ago
1. You can't just add it to a list to be downloaded later.
2. Some of the genres aren't very specific.
I can see the PMN being the leader, but they aren't right now. What I would like to see is the ability for an artist to tag their music. So if it is "Hard Rock, Hip Hop/Rap, Christian" they can tag it as such. There is only a hundred genres on the PMN, can we cut that down to major classifications then use tags beyond that? Then on the producer side, give us the ability to group songs and automatically create the required links for us (like IODA does). Also, I would like to monitor my favorite artists to see if they released new music and monitor my favorite genres.
These are just a few of the things I can see for the PMN.
1 year ago
"But when you take stock of the fact that the company makes no effort to hide the drug use that goes on at the highest levels - among the people who make the decisions within the company, decisions that will affect ALL of the producers using their network, and in turn all of their listeners - is it any surprise that they just can’t get it right?"
Huh?
It's certainly no secret that Adam Curry uses marijuana; he's said so as much many times on his show. What other allegations have been made?
1 year ago
1 year ago
“But when you take stock of the fact that the company makes no effort to hide the drug use that goes on at the highest levels - among the people who make the decisions within the company, decisions that will affect ALL of the producers using their network, and in turn all of their listeners - is it any surprise that they just can’t get it right?â€
Huh?
It’s certainly no secret that Adam Curry uses marijuana; he’s said so as much many times on his show. What other allegations have been made?
Need there be other allegations (although there are, but haven't been made public)? When you've got the president of the company having his pot smoking as a trademark (well documented; pick a DSC) and revelling in it in the style of a 17 year old boy circa 1981 then you sense there's problems in the boardroom, no?
1 year ago
And while Tartan Mark's point is well taken, I think it's just a low blow to equate being open about smoking pot to being fiscally irresponsible. Other companies are likely run by guys doing 8 balls and smoking crack with train tracks running up their arms, but we just don't know about it. Adam's openness in this case isn't a sign of malfeasance, just that he's honest about his use of a common drug that many also use. (and no, I'm not an apologist, Adam's a big boy, I just think that this line of discussion obfuscates the real issue, which is an important one)
1 year ago
1 year ago
In answer to the question of "Is anyone not getting complaints from users?", I would have to say that I have not gotten any. The vast majority of my audience is getting the enhanced version of my podcast and that file format (AAC) currently does not support pre-roll ads. :-)
1 year ago
Not that they owe you something, but I'm surprised that a new media player wouldn't have sent their community developers to your site to open the conversation on all fronts.
1 year ago
But, because of my close ties to PodShow (dislcaimer: the Podpimp is a shareholder), I have to ask -- how many of you have contacted Richard Brewer-Hay or Joe Carpenter this week? How many have contacted since the campaign started? How many of you have called Richard and Joe or emailed them with the same vigor as your comments here?
I'm not trying to be a dick or an apologist. However, I read threads like this and I cringe.
I've been on the other side of this collective barrage before. I have literally been in meetings at PodShow, where I'm trying to solicit feedback on advertising and programming over the phone and the other end of the line is the sound of crickets. Sometimes that call is overseas or back east at some ungodly hour. And, I, Richard or Joe, were sitting there really trying to represent your voices and advocate your position at PodShow. A few minutes later, I'd find that the same quiet podcaster on the phone was simultaneously ranting and leveling harsh and honest criticisms in blogs, IM's, emails.
I don't dispute any of your positions, but I have to ask -- are you throwing Richard and Joe under the bus with these comments? How many of you were on conference calls with Richard and or Joe this week? Did you tell them how much you hated the promo? Are you being honest with these guys? Or are you making a very difficult job that much harder for these guys?
I'm just asking that you extend these guys the professional courtesy of being honest with them so that they don't have slink in and out of the office for a week because you guys decided to sound off collectively without telling them why you're pissed off.
1 year ago
1 year ago
http://www.usdin.net/suckless.mp3
1 - The suck less survey seemed like it was going to get information they already knew - demographic and lite user feedback. Maybe there is to be more surveys - and I hope they focus in more detail,
2 - The use of ePoll is unquestionably a mistake. Epoll has a pretty poor reputation, and their prize structure is pretty lame. 500 points for one survey - means I need 4 more surveys to get to the lowest prize - just a charity donation of my points. I need 6 more surveys to get to a prize of value - just a $5 gift card to McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks. That's almost 2 hours of my time for $5. My time is not worth $2.50 an hour. Moreover the prizes offered are ePoll's standard prizes. Why not offer prizes more in line with Podshow's corp identity? iTunes gift cards to every 10th person to fill out a survey or even iPod shuffles. Even a cheap 128MB flash drive - worth practically nothing bought in bulk - is useful to a tech-savvy user of Podshow.
To the people who say "well just FFWD through the first 60 seconds" - I don't think it's that simple. If you offer content - it should be of some value. At the very least five to ten separate and unique spots would have created enough variety at launch to help stave off the complaints of repetition. I'm talking about totally unique takes. Let each of the hosts featured dothe spot themselves, rather then dropping voices into the same template.
Also think about how people use podcasts. Say they are going jogging - they push play and start their jog and that damn Podshow promo starts off the podcast. FFWD? Not so easy when running. Get in the car, start podcast as you're backing out of the garage....stop, FFWD... It's annoying and you're turning your listener off. At the very least if it was unique each time (or every tenth time) you reduce the fatigue of hearing them over and over.
--*Rob
1 year ago
for 6 months I have not been able to upload my show to their servers, I had to open a personal server account again. Podshows site is very slow and chunky and reporting back can be a lot of work, I quite using music from podshow and I am for the most part just doing a CD revue show now! They need to fix that as well, If they fix the up-load problems and the speed of the site and the reporting of plays and they will suck less!
1 year ago
I was listening to Adam this morning, and he reminded me of something. If podcasting is, at it's core, a groundswell type of movement, lets fix it ourselves. Adam says he'll put shorter, homespun audio in the DGAP rotation. I'm going to strap on a mic and hold him to his word.
I was ready to bail, but I looked around at some of the alternatives. Everyone has trouble. I tried one of my shows on Podango. The audio quality sucked so bad (they compressed my show so hard it sounded like AM Radio) I bailed on that. I didn't spend a year upgrading equipment and techniques to get hosed at the distribution level.
As Roseann Roseanadana used to say, "It's always something." He's been pushing me pretty hard, but as long as I think he's still listening, I'll keep telling him what I think, and offering him my help to fix it.
1 year ago
What scares me the most is that this may be a sign of things to come. If Podshow is willing to do a 59 second ad for their own network, how much easier will it be for them to do preroll ads for paying companies that are this long or even longer? Yes, podcasting has no time limits like traditional broadcasting in a technical sense. Those boundaries still exist in the minds of our audience.
If you haven't written Podshow yet, I encourage you to do so. Posting a comment here is great, but these need to be taken to the network itself.
1 year ago
@Vinny: Already done. I submitted an 11 second pre-roll ad to Podshow for inclusion.
1 year ago
1 year ago
In the end, he didn't listen to it. He later described the DSC as "that show that has the 2-3 minute introduction about sucking"....
I don't mind the pre-rolls or post-rolls... and I understand why they are there. But in a case like this, why not simply have your talent (show producers) ask their audiences to submit some feedback regarding their podshow experience.
We live in a world where our demographics are self-selected based on subscription. Our shows (for the most part) have clearly defined subjects/themes/genres. Our listeners have a quite high propensity to be bloggers or podcasters themselves ... or in the very least, much more comfortable with stating opinions online than your typical web user. Why rely on a survey?
Here's the perfect example.... I'll turn the knife on myself. I tried the Podshow Suckless Zone. I wasn't interested in points, or "cool prizes!!" (how lame does that sound), I just figured I had enough experience complaining about the podshowplus UI that I should voice these comments.
I think I made it halfway through the registration. Didn't submit. And here I am, posting it all on a blog.
Thanks Chris - as usual, you are a ninja among men.
1 year ago
I once signed up to take an e-poll survey and regretted it because they spam you and share your user data on other sites that make deals with e-poll.
Having watched Podshow operate for the last few years I am guessing they care less about your opinion and more about the users they will get from the e-poll system.
So, what was I going to say in my survey?
Want to suck less?
1. Make a site that people can use. It looks pretty but it feels like it was designed by two flashy guys that have no idea (or care) what the user wants. This brings up a question I have had for a while... who at podshow is leading the design? Is it Adam and Ron Bloom? If so, maybe it's time to hire someone that knows, or at least listens to what users want. What you have now is a bloated social network that tries to be everything for everyone. Here's a newsflash: there are social networks that are much better then you will ever be. How about a focus on podcasts and work within social networks?
2. Listen to your users. We know what we want. Don't think you know better about what we want.
3. Support your networks. I loved Podcast alley and the idea of the music network when they were started. But what has happened to them? I don't see many updates of either (hell, you can still rip off music from the music network - how do they expect to sell music? And how are they getting labels to buy into the broken system?)
4. Someone tell Ron Bloom he is a aging owner of a tech company and he may want to act like it. I saw a google video of him giving a speech. News flash Mr. Bloom... you are like 50 years old and own a tech company, time to stop your lame "I am so cool" act. You are not in hollywood, you can take off the cbgb's t-shirt and the ripped jeans and act your age. IT'S NOT COOL, it is sad.
I would not bring up number four except for the fact that I think this is one of the issues of podshow, they are delusional. They believe they are SO cool that they can do what they want and know what a 18 year old listener wants. This effects the product and how they treat their customers, and it makes fans like me stop listening (watching).
Here is what is truly sad... I am using a comment on a blog to tell podshow what is wrong with the system because I don't feel like anyone is listening at podshow.
1 year ago
first, a commendable comment from Aaron. it's typical to sit back and expect things to get better without getting involved. it's the same with any cause-- people buy a product where XX is donated to cause Y for every purchase, instead of donating that XX amount themselves... passive.
i remember listening to podcasts at a time when Podshow was seen to be the saviour of the industry. many of you seem to be acting like we're still there... why?
dictate your own terms; don't wait on a huge company to come and solve these problems for you. i think skipping the pre-rolls was the best thing Chris could've done for the community-- it gets the point across more than any bitching. if the pre-rolls truly are the wrong thing to do, Podshow will see it in their bottom line, and make changes then.
i long ago made my peace with the pre-rolls Podshow puts in front of my show and others. i am very familiar with the consequences, and accept them along with the benefits i reap from them being present... i am also grateful for the audience i have that goes through them every time-- for my benefit.
i assure you guys (not as Podshow apologist, that's not my job) that, though they aren't always talking, the guys mentioned above are always listening to what's going on, and working a hell of a lot more than the majority of us are to affect change within the company. but, like most of us with day jobs, they're still just two guys working inside a $25 million $+ operation. that shit is hard, and it takes time.
one thing remains true-- every second that pre-roll goes on is one second i don't have the chance to reach them. that sucks, and i hope Podshow comes to understand that i can keep a listener better than a pre-roll does, extending Podshow's influence rather than shrinking it, which it now looks like these ads are doing.
1 year ago
That's the thing that I think is so important about this discussion. I don't know about everyone else, but I want Podshow to succeed. I want Podshow's podcasters to succeed even more, to succeed wildly, because when they do, when each show is growing audience, bringing a little more of the 100 million iPods out there into podcasting, we ALL win. We ALL succeed, because podcasting is practically self-selling. Once you hear one, you realize that you no longer have to live just with Dopey and Dummy in the morning and ClearChannel on the dial at work. Every new listener of any podcast is a potential listener to everyone else's too - as long as their first exposure to podcasting isn't a minute-long ad about how the show you're going to listen to sucks.
1 year ago
1 year ago
http://www.jerseytoddshow.com/index.php?post_id...
My one comment is that good or bad, Podshow shouldn't be the focus of Podshow. The podcaster - you, Jersey Todd - should be their focus, to help you accomplish, to help you achieve whatever goals you want to accomplish with your podcast. If you want to quit your day job, great. If you want to have fun with a creative outlet, great. If you want to unite the other communities you belong to, great. Podcasting can be a part of that, and in my perspective of what a podcast network is, Podshow should be throwing its weight behind you to help you achieve those goals.
Need to learn how to position a condenser mic? Need to learn how to record a Skype call? Need to learn how to set up Google Adsense? The network that you've joined up with should be the first call you make, and not necessarily a Podshow employee, but someone or many someones in the Podshow community, and ideally you could throw out something to that community and have a response that was better, faster, and higher quality than any other podcasting community online.
But again, that's just one guy's perspective, and take it with a grain of salt from someone who co-founded a New Media UnConference movement that has no revenue model :-) If you're a whore, I guess I'm a hippie.
1 year ago
Todd, your heartfelt post is quite touching. Rest assured, no one thinks you're a whore. A slut, yes, but a whore, no, and in the social media world, it's all about slutting yourself around, no?
Kidding aside, I agree with you that it's easy to lay all the criticism about everything within this podcasting space at the feet of the most prominent player...further proof that they're doing something right by being the 800-pound gorilla in the room.
The biggest thing I get out of your post is a reminder that the relationships we've already built within the network and between ourselves as podcasters is as valuable if not more valuable than the residual effect of promotion we can get from being mentioned on the DSC or such.
We as podcasters that are part of the podshow family need to generate ideas and share them, implementing them in our own podcasts. This is how so many great things have come about in this community, ie - Bum Rush The Charts.
So let's all get out there and generate great content and great ideas, and keep the conversation going, not sitting at the soda fountain waiting for stardom to come aknockin'!
1 year ago
There have been several misses I have personally witnessed. Some effected me directly, some didn't. The PMN, while mentioned a lot, is IMHO still just a small part of what Podshow is about. Sure, podcasting to some people is about music and sticking it to the RIAA... and that's cool (for them.)
But there are just as many (if not more) music-less shows on the Podshow Network that may (don't hurt me here) take precedence over the ones that do. I mean, if you have 80% talk podcasts and 20% music podcasts, then why spend you $$$ on the PMN?
The problem is that nothing seems to be done ... anywhere. Promises are being made and not carried through. I was promised a PS contract last year because Ron and Adam thought I was "out of the box" with the iPod contest thing. Guess what - nothing happened. Probably because, frankly, my podcast is nothing to write home about. It is a mini version of the DSC, and Im just plain not as interesting as Adam. nuff said.
The problem is that promises are being made to contract holders, to regular network users, to artists on the PMN, to listeners - and, apparently, those promises are not being kept. Or, they are written off as "in development" with no further information.
The podcasting community started, and thrives, because it IS a community. As Todd said on his take on the subject, I too have enjoyed the confidence and help of CC Chapman, Adam, PodShow Joe, The Strange Brood, and I'll add Todd to the list as well. Not only have they helped, but they all sent in sweepers and IDs for me, and in turn played mine on their shows. It's an incredible camaraderie that most everybody seems to share. On the flip side, I have never received an email back from Ron or Pdubb after writing them, leaving a very bad impression that those "really" at the top only talk to those near the top.
I echo the comments from Chris and Todd in that instead of investing in the Podshow Network, they need to be investing in the podcast creators ON the network. Not just contract holders either - but being a part of the community that they have helped to launch. It should be a no-brainer to sponsor a podcamp or a podcruise, or put together a series of how-tos on Podshow.com. Why leave this type of communication to the forums?
Podshow's biggest asset is NOT the Podshow network. It is the podcast producers and listeners.
1 year ago
I can't speak for Ron Bloom, but I can tell you that in order for me to answer an e-mail I have to receive one. I don't delete my e-mail and a search just revealed nothing from you. I'm sorry, but I just didn't get your e-mail. I'm usually quite good at answering mine, especially if is a question of some sort.
As for only talking to other people at the top... thanks for the promotion. Is there a raise that goes along with that?
1 year ago
1 year ago
PDubb - it was back in my early days of Podcasting, I emailed a couple of time since your voice is so neat, asking your price for a promo. After 2 times I gave up.
Now as for a raise...
Seriously though, I apologize if you took offense. You always appear to be very high in the chain so I wrongfully assumed the "worst" ... I have been corrected and again I apologize.
I stand by my post however in that the listener and the podcaster have to be paramount. Getting new advertisers are great, but if they are only shoved down a handful of contract-players feeds, then I'm not sure how good they are actually doing.
I got a "naked pictures" version of the suck less promo on my feed right now. I emailed Joe about it to see if it can be removed. It was something along the lines of "some people think we at Podshow are just sitting around waiting for naked pictures to come in," I was stunned when I heard it on my feed. I don't mind the "best and the brightest limelight" ad, but visions of Podshow people downloading naked photos is not something I want my 20 listeners thinking about when my podcast starts.
Im a little concerned about everybody feeling the PMN has been abandoned. I would be interested if there is any kind of a demo that details music podcasts vs talk podcasts .. numbers wise. While I agree, the current system is cumbersome (some say broken), does it really concern the masses of PS distributed productions? What percentage does it have to be to become a priority?
There has always been a lot of negative vibes towards PS , even before the whole "contract airing." Personally, I think PS with the addition of Castblaster is a GREAT service. You have a tool, AND you have a distribution network. Plus a community willing to help.
The sad part is the community seems external, and in some cases in spite of the PS infrastructure. How many people in the early days got "messages" from "entourage" only broadcasting their latest episode. That's not a community.
I think I've lost my way in this post... Anyway, I too find the Suck Less promos not necessary. At least they have reduced the playing time, but the content is still not something I really would have attached to my feed.
1 year ago
http://urltea.com/oze [mp3 link]
1 year ago
That's the one rolling on mine, non-explicit. As I said... Somebody I can barely understand, talking about naked pictures, burping and sucking less.
Surprised there's not a fold and scrunch in there too.
Very bad taste, IMHO.
1 year ago
"Now the guys at Podshow could sit around all the days and nights at HQ and shake their nuts waiting for some naked pictures and advertising campaigns. [belch]"
1 year ago
With that said I'm sad to see and hear about what has been happening at Podshow and the PMN. I've been promoting the PMN on my podcast for over a year and telling my audience that "soon" they will be able