Christopher S. Penn's Awaken Your Superhero - Latest Comments in Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Phillip Molly Malone — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:47:33 -0000

Come on guys, why all the hate towards poor little Adam Curry. You know he doesn't like it. He'll tell you on the show that your just trying to rain on his day. I mean how can he be shaddy and try to rip you off if everytime he does we all call him out on it. Come on guys lift your game.

And Aaron. Perhaps when Podshow start contacting their people about things like losing the Sirus deal, they will start contacting you. From what I hear, the Podshow podcasters want you to sign up Yaknom as at least he keeps them informed of what is going on!
Molly

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

x1 — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:13:26 -0000

"Also, I would like to monitor my favorite artists to see if they released new music and monitor my favorite genres."

Now it would be nice if the artists could contact the producers that have used their music in the past.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Tom Newman — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 13:05:34 -0000

I'm a big fan of Adam Curry, Podshow, and the PMN because of what they've done for podcasting. I don't think podcasting would be where it is today without them.

With that said I'm sad to see and hear about what has been happening at Podshow and the PMN. I've been promoting the PMN on my podcast for over a year and telling my audience that "soon" they will be able to purchase the music I play on my show and the other songs on the PMN. Except for a few songs that hasn't really happened. I've followed the PMN from the time Adam first mentioned it and felt it was a great way to deliver DRM-free music and promote independent artists. I never thought Apple's iTunes would beat PMN to the punch on DRM-free music.

I'm not part of the Podshow network but I am part of Blubbry network (www.blubbry.com). I like what Todd Cochran has done at Blubrry because he is totally open about the network and what they are trying to do. They support their podcasters and provide timely updates about what's going on with the network. Since I don't have a show on Podshow I can't personally say what they do or do not provide the same transparency but from what I hear it doesn't sound like it.

I have heard the "suck less" pre-roll and also felt that it made them suck more. There are plenty of smart people at Podshow and it seems they already have a pretty good idea of how to "suck less." Updating and fixing the PMN would be a good start.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:24:39 -0000

Near as I can tell, the intro text is:

"Now the guys at Podshow could sit around all the days and nights at HQ and shake their nuts waiting for some naked pictures and advertising campaigns. [belch]"

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Troy Rutter — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:21:19 -0000

Chris ~

That's the one rolling on mine, non-explicit. As I said... Somebody I can barely understand, talking about naked pictures, burping and sucking less.

Surprised there's not a fold and scrunch in there too.

Very bad taste, IMHO.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 06:39:46 -0000

Umm, guys? If the goal of the new Podshow pre-rolls that are user-generated, in addition to being shorter, is also to have pre-rolls appropriate for the diversity of Podshow shows, this is not an improvement, unless this one only rolls on shows tagged explicit.

http://urltea.com/oze [mp3 link]

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Troy Rutter — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:31:28 -0000

Hey JT - thanks, it wasnt a "make Troy feel better post" but thanks.

PDubb - it was back in my early days of Podcasting, I emailed a couple of time since your voice is so neat, asking your price for a promo. After 2 times I gave up.

Now as for a raise...

Seriously though, I apologize if you took offense. You always appear to be very high in the chain so I wrongfully assumed the "worst" ... I have been corrected and again I apologize.

I stand by my post however in that the listener and the podcaster have to be paramount. Getting new advertisers are great, but if they are only shoved down a handful of contract-players feeds, then I'm not sure how good they are actually doing.

I got a "naked pictures" version of the suck less promo on my feed right now. I emailed Joe about it to see if it can be removed. It was something along the lines of "some people think we at Podshow are just sitting around waiting for naked pictures to come in," I was stunned when I heard it on my feed. I don't mind the "best and the brightest limelight" ad, but visions of Podshow people downloading naked photos is not something I want my 20 listeners thinking about when my podcast starts.

Im a little concerned about everybody feeling the PMN has been abandoned. I would be interested if there is any kind of a demo that details music podcasts vs talk podcasts .. numbers wise. While I agree, the current system is cumbersome (some say broken), does it really concern the masses of PS distributed productions? What percentage does it have to be to become a priority?

There has always been a lot of negative vibes towards PS , even before the whole "contract airing." Personally, I think PS with the addition of Castblaster is a GREAT service. You have a tool, AND you have a distribution network. Plus a community willing to help.

The sad part is the community seems external, and in some cases in spite of the PS infrastructure. How many people in the early days got "messages" from "entourage" only broadcasting their latest episode. That's not a community.

I think I've lost my way in this post... Anyway, I too find the Suck Less promos not necessary. At least they have reduced the playing time, but the content is still not something I really would have attached to my feed.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Jersey Todd — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:49:18 -0000

@Troy - I write home about your show all the time...Seriously, its always been a great show and its one of my regular listens...

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

P.W. Fenton — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:59:44 -0000

Troy Rutter said... "On the flip side, I have never received an email back from Ron or Pdubb after writing them, leaving a very bad impression that those â€œreallyâ€ at the top only talk to those near the top."

I can't speak for Ron Bloom, but I can tell you that in order for me to answer an e-mail I have to receive one. I don't delete my e-mail and a search just revealed nothing from you. I'm sorry, but I just didn't get your e-mail. I'm usually quite good at answering mine, especially if is a question of some sort.

As for only talking to other people at the top... thanks for the promotion. Is there a raise that goes along with that?

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Troy Rutter — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:58:17 -0000

Great discussion and right on Chris.

There have been several misses I have personally witnessed. Some effected me directly, some didn't. The PMN, while mentioned a lot, is IMHO still just a small part of what Podshow is about. Sure, podcasting to some people is about music and sticking it to the RIAA... and that's cool (for them.)

But there are just as many (if not more) music-less shows on the Podshow Network that may (don't hurt me here) take precedence over the ones that do. I mean, if you have 80% talk podcasts and 20% music podcasts, then why spend you $$$ on the PMN?

The problem is that nothing seems to be done ... anywhere. Promises are being made and not carried through. I was promised a PS contract last year because Ron and Adam thought I was "out of the box" with the iPod contest thing. Guess what - nothing happened. Probably because, frankly, my podcast is nothing to write home about. It is a mini version of the DSC, and Im just plain not as interesting as Adam. nuff said.

The problem is that promises are being made to contract holders, to regular network users, to artists on the PMN, to listeners - and, apparently, those promises are not being kept. Or, they are written off as "in development" with no further information.

The podcasting community started, and thrives, because it IS a community. As Todd said on his take on the subject, I too have enjoyed the confidence and help of CC Chapman, Adam, PodShow Joe, The Strange Brood, and I'll add Todd to the list as well. Not only have they helped, but they all sent in sweepers and IDs for me, and in turn played mine on their shows. It's an incredible camaraderie that most everybody seems to share. On the flip side, I have never received an email back from Ron or Pdubb after writing them, leaving a very bad impression that those "really" at the top only talk to those near the top.

I echo the comments from Chris and Todd in that instead of investing in the Podshow Network, they need to be investing in the podcast creators ON the network. Not just contract holders either - but being a part of the community that they have helped to launch. It should be a no-brainer to sponsor a podcamp or a podcruise, or put together a series of how-tos on Podshow.com. Why leave this type of communication to the forums?

Podshow's biggest asset is NOT the Podshow network. It is the podcast producers and listeners.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Chef Mark — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:02:29 -0000

(I'm cross posting this comment from Jersey Todd's blog to keep the conversation going here....)

Todd, your heartfelt post is quite touching. Rest assured, no one thinks you're a whore. A slut, yes, but a whore, no, and in the social media world, it's all about slutting yourself around, no?

Kidding aside, I agree with you that it's easy to lay all the criticism about everything within this podcasting space at the feet of the most prominent player...further proof that they're doing something right by being the 800-pound gorilla in the room.

The biggest thing I get out of your post is a reminder that the relationships we've already built within the network and between ourselves as podcasters is as valuable if not more valuable than the residual effect of promotion we can get from being mentioned on the DSC or such.

We as podcasters that are part of the podshow family need to generate ideas and share them, implementing them in our own podcasts. This is how so many great things have come about in this community, ie - Bum Rush The Charts.

So let's all get out there and generate great content and great ideas, and keep the conversation going, not sitting at the soda fountain waiting for stardom to come aknockin'!

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:26:55 -0000

Todd Wachtel - aka Jersey Todd - also has a very good perspective on Podshow on his blog. It's a worthwhile read.

http://www.jerseytoddshow.com/index.php?post_id...

My one comment is that good or bad, Podshow shouldn't be the focus of Podshow. The podcaster - you, Jersey Todd - should be their focus, to help you accomplish, to help you achieve whatever goals you want to accomplish with your podcast. If you want to quit your day job, great. If you want to have fun with a creative outlet, great. If you want to unite the other communities you belong to, great. Podcasting can be a part of that, and in my perspective of what a podcast network is, Podshow should be throwing its weight behind you to help you achieve those goals.

Need to learn how to position a condenser mic? Need to learn how to record a Skype call? Need to learn how to set up Google Adsense? The network that you've joined up with should be the first call you make, and not necessarily a Podshow employee, but someone or many someones in the Podshow community, and ideally you could throw out something to that community and have a response that was better, faster, and higher quality than any other podcasting community online.

But again, that's just one guy's perspective, and take it with a grain of salt from someone who co-founded a New Media UnConference movement that has no revenue model :-) If you're a whore, I guess I'm a hippie.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:14:06 -0000

Neil - it's a sobering realization that when you have a pre-roll ad that talks about how Podshow sucks, by default, you're also implying the show it's attached to sucks.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:57:10 -0000

Julien - you're dead on the money - every second that any kind of pre-roll is running is a second you, the podcaster, are not interacting with the people who have voluntarily chosen to listen to your show. That point can't be stated enough. A lot of people have spent a great amount of time and care creating a show that sounds as good as they can make it, including their intro. Post-roll is fine, but even more important, I think, is to transmit branding inside of the show itself, by the producer. If your network - whatever network you belong to, Podshow, TPN, Blubrry, etc. is as awesome as we ALL want them to be, you'll have no trouble promoting the network as well as any sponsors.

That's the thing that I think is so important about this discussion. I don't know about everyone else, but I want Podshow to succeed. I want Podshow's podcasters to succeed even more, to succeed wildly, because when they do, when each show is growing audience, bringing a little more of the 100 million iPods out there into podcasting, we ALL win. We ALL succeed, because podcasting is practically self-selling. Once you hear one, you realize that you no longer have to live just with Dopey and Dummy in the morning and ClearChannel on the dial at work. Every new listener of any podcast is a potential listener to everyone else's too - as long as their first exposure to podcasting isn't a minute-long ad about how the show you're going to listen to sucks.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

julien — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:52:39 -0000

man, i have so much to say about this.

first, a commendable comment from Aaron. it's typical to sit back and expect things to get better without getting involved. it's the same with any cause-- people buy a product where XX is donated to cause Y for every purchase, instead of donating that XX amount themselves... passive.

i remember listening to podcasts at a time when Podshow was seen to be the saviour of the industry. many of you seem to be acting like we're still there... why?

dictate your own terms; don't wait on a huge company to come and solve these problems for you. i think skipping the pre-rolls was the best thing Chris could've done for the community-- it gets the point across more than any bitching. if the pre-rolls truly are the wrong thing to do, Podshow will see it in their bottom line, and make changes then.

i long ago made my peace with the pre-rolls Podshow puts in front of my show and others. i am very familiar with the consequences, and accept them along with the benefits i reap from them being present... i am also grateful for the audience i have that goes through them every time-- for my benefit.

i assure you guys (not as Podshow apologist, that's not my job) that, though they aren't always talking, the guys mentioned above are always listening to what's going on, and working a hell of a lot more than the majority of us are to affect change within the company. but, like most of us with day jobs, they're still just two guys working inside a $25 million $+ operation. that shit is hard, and it takes time.

one thing remains true-- every second that pre-roll goes on is one second i don't have the chance to reach them. that sucks, and i hope Podshow comes to understand that i can keep a listener better than a pre-roll does, extending Podshow's influence rather than shrinking it, which it now looks like these ads are doing.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

TS — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:13:15 -0000

I am a podcast listener and have been for the last two years. For the last two years, I have been waiting for podshow to do something amazing in the podcast space, and been VERY disappointed. So the first time the "suck less" spot played I checked it out, thinking that I could help make things better. Instead I found a e-poll survey.

I once signed up to take an e-poll survey and regretted it because they spam you and share your user data on other sites that make deals with e-poll.

Having watched Podshow operate for the last few years I am guessing they care less about your opinion and more about the users they will get from the e-poll system.

So, what was I going to say in my survey?

Want to suck less?

1. Make a site that people can use. It looks pretty but it feels like it was designed by two flashy guys that have no idea (or care) what the user wants. This brings up a question I have had for a while... who at podshow is leading the design? Is it Adam and Ron Bloom? If so, maybe it's time to hire someone that knows, or at least listens to what users want. What you have now is a bloated social network that tries to be everything for everyone. Here's a newsflash: there are social networks that are much better then you will ever be. How about a focus on podcasts and work within social networks?

2. Listen to your users. We know what we want. Don't think you know better about what we want.

3. Support your networks. I loved Podcast alley and the idea of the music network when they were started. But what has happened to them? I don't see many updates of either (hell, you can still rip off music from the music network - how do they expect to sell music? And how are they getting labels to buy into the broken system?)

4. Someone tell Ron Bloom he is a aging owner of a tech company and he may want to act like it. I saw a google video of him giving a speech. News flash Mr. Bloom... you are like 50 years old and own a tech company, time to stop your lame "I am so cool" act. You are not in hollywood, you can take off the cbgb's t-shirt and the ripped jeans and act your age. IT'S NOT COOL, it is sad.

I would not bring up number four except for the fact that I think this is one of the issues of podshow, they are delusional. They believe they are SO cool that they can do what they want and know what a 18 year old listener wants. This effects the product and how they treat their customers, and it makes fans like me stop listening (watching).

Here is what is truly sad... I am using a comment on a blog to tell podshow what is wrong with the system because I don't feel like anyone is listening at podshow.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Neil — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:07:07 -0000

Totally agree on the Suck Less Promos. I passed an episode of the DSC to a co-worker last week, and his first taste of a "Podshow Property" was the indication that "Podshow Sucks". He was totally confused, and although he skipped 30-40 seconds in, he was still subjected to discussion of how much what he was about to listen to (or was listening to) "sucked".

In the end, he didn't listen to it. He later described the DSC as "that show that has the 2-3 minute introduction about sucking"....

I don't mind the pre-rolls or post-rolls... and I understand why they are there. But in a case like this, why not simply have your talent (show producers) ask their audiences to submit some feedback regarding their podshow experience.

We live in a world where our demographics are self-selected based on subscription. Our shows (for the most part) have clearly defined subjects/themes/genres. Our listeners have a quite high propensity to be bloggers or podcasters themselves ... or in the very least, much more comfortable with stating opinions online than your typical web user. Why rely on a survey?

Here's the perfect example.... I'll turn the knife on myself. I tried the Podshow Suckless Zone. I wasn't interested in points, or "cool prizes!!" (how lame does that sound), I just figured I had enough experience complaining about the podshowplus UI that I should voice these comments.

I think I made it halfway through the registration. Didn't submit. And here I am, posting it all on a blog.

Thanks Chris - as usual, you are a ninja among men.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:03:13 -0000

I'd like to explicitly invite any Podshow employee - Joe, Richard, Adam, anyone - to join the conversation. So far, we've had terrific input from everyone, constructive for the most part (I've had to delete one comment which was an ad hominem attack), but I'd also like to hear Podshow join the public debate.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Christopher S. Penn — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:10:59 -0000

@Aaron Burcell: Talked to Joe several times this week. He's well aware of what's going on.

@Vinny: Already done. I submitted an 11 second pre-roll ad to Podshow for inclusion.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Ed Roberts — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:54:06 -0000

Thanks for the great post as always Chris. I sent Podshow an email immediately after hearing the first 1 minute preroll, and am shocked to still hear this going on over a week later.

What scares me the most is that this may be a sign of things to come. If Podshow is willing to do a 59 second ad for their own network, how much easier will it be for them to do preroll ads for paying companies that are this long or even longer? Yes, podcasting has no time limits like traditional broadcasting in a technical sense. Those boundaries still exist in the minds of our audience.

If you haven't written Podshow yet, I encourage you to do so. Posting a comment here is great, but these need to be taken to the network itself.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Vinny aka Bernie — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 21:05:55 -0000

Chris, I was right there with you. The 60 second spots make me crazy. The kludgy interface. The lack of any kind of connection or support unless you are, as Comic Strip Blogger calls it, a "Podshow Whore". The inability to affect any branding choices around your show (for example, how about being able to say I'd like my DGAP's to be Family Friendly, General Adult, or 'Dawn and Drew' level).

I was listening to Adam this morning, and he reminded me of something. If podcasting is, at it's core, a groundswell type of movement, lets fix it ourselves. Adam says he'll put shorter, homespun audio in the DGAP rotation. I'm going to strap on a mic and hold him to his word.

I was ready to bail, but I looked around at some of the alternatives. Everyone has trouble. I tried one of my shows on Podango. The audio quality sucked so bad (they compressed my show so hard it sounded like AM Radio) I bailed on that. I didn't spend a year upgrading equipment and techniques to get hosed at the distribution level.

As Roseann Roseanadana used to say, "It's always something." He's been pushing me pretty hard, but as long as I think he's still listening, I'll keep telling him what I think, and offering him my help to fix it.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

AJ - BaldGuyShow — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:56:38 -0000

Podshow needs to listen and not just dictate
for 6 months I have not been able to upload my show to their servers, I had to open a personal server account again. Podshows site is very slow and chunky and reporting back can be a lot of work, I quite using music from podshow and I am for the most part just doing a CD revue show now! They need to fix that as well, If they fix the up-load problems and the speed of the site and the reporting of plays and they will suck less!

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Rob Usdin — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:28:21 -0000

A couple of comments I made in an audio comment sent to Adam:

http://www.usdin.net/suckless.mp3

1 - The suck less survey seemed like it was going to get information they already knew - demographic and lite user feedback. Maybe there is to be more surveys - and I hope they focus in more detail,

2 - The use of ePoll is unquestionably a mistake. Epoll has a pretty poor reputation, and their prize structure is pretty lame. 500 points for one survey - means I need 4 more surveys to get to the lowest prize - just a charity donation of my points. I need 6 more surveys to get to a prize of value - just a $5 gift card to McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks. That's almost 2 hours of my time for $5. My time is not worth $2.50 an hour. Moreover the prizes offered are ePoll's standard prizes. Why not offer prizes more in line with Podshow's corp identity? iTunes gift cards to every 10th person to fill out a survey or even iPod shuffles. Even a cheap 128MB flash drive - worth practically nothing bought in bulk - is useful to a tech-savvy user of Podshow.

To the people who say "well just FFWD through the first 60 seconds" - I don't think it's that simple. If you offer content - it should be of some value. At the very least five to ten separate and unique spots would have created enough variety at launch to help stave off the complaints of repetition. I'm talking about totally unique takes. Let each of the hosts featured dothe spot themselves, rather then dropping voices into the same template.

Also think about how people use podcasts. Say they are going jogging - they push play and start their jog and that damn Podshow promo starts off the podcast. FFWD? Not so easy when running. Get in the car, start podcast as you're backing out of the garage....stop, FFWD... It's annoying and you're turning your listener off. At the very least if it was unique each time (or every tenth time) you reduce the fatigue of hearing them over and over.

--*Rob

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

David Jacobs — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:28:47 -0000

Ironic that in trying to "suck less", Podshow sucks. The original Earthlink ads also sucked. Podshow Plus sucks. For a company with so much money and talent, I've always wondered how they could suck so much. But you are dead on because the one thing that doesn't suck at Podshow are the producers. Even the original PMN, which I still like and use today was produced by CC. The problem now is I don't really care anymore; it's not my problem and Podshow hasn't engendered enough good will to make me want to care. There was a time when Podcasters got all hot and bothered about what Podshow did. Now, I don't think they care much anymore. That could be the most dangerous thing of all. Podshow talks a big game, but I've rarely seen them come through and deliver. A lot of things they do seem to fizzle out. If you really want to suck less, why leach me for demographic info? Just ask. I might tell you, if I cared.

Re: Here is what is wrong with Podshow (and maybe how to fix it)

Aaron Burcell — Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:27:36 -0000

I know that you're all ranting and that you take the good from PodShow along with the bad.
But, because of my close ties to PodShow (dislcaimer: the Podpimp is a shareholder), I have to ask -- how many of you have contacted Richard Brewer-Hay or Joe Carpenter this week? How many have contacted since the campaign started? How many of you have called Richard and Joe or emailed them with the same vigor as your comments here?

I'm not trying to be a dick or an apologist. However, I read threads like this and I cringe.
I've been on the other side of this collective barrage before. I have literally been in meetings at PodShow, where I'm trying to solicit feedback on advertising and programming over the phone and the other end of the line is the sound of crickets. Sometimes that call is overseas or back east at some ungodly hour. And, I, Richard or Joe, were sitting there really trying to represent your voices and advocate your position at PodShow. A few minutes later, I'd find that the same quiet podcaster on the phone was simultaneously ranting and leveling harsh and honest criticisms in blogs, IM's, emails.
I don't dispute any of your positions, but I have to ask -- are you throwing Richard and Joe under the bus with these comments? How many of you were on conference calls with Richard and or Joe this week? Did you tell them how much you hated the promo? Are you being honest with these guys? Or are you making a very difficult job that much harder for these guys?
I'm just asking that you extend these guys the professional courtesy of being honest with them so that they don't have slink in and out of the office for a week because you guys decided to sound off collectively without telling them why you're pissed off.